seeking a friend

Knowing we will be moving Pandora at the end of April to our new place, I’ve put the feelers out looking for a pony companion for her. Maybe even a mini-donkey (though I have no experience with these).

Looking online through Craigslist is so depressing. The MO CL list is filled with even more half-starved horses and ponies looking for homes or idiots who have bred their mare and now are trying to sell her pregnant because they were too stupid to figure out where babies come from – or what they cost – or thought their backyard stud was soooo beautiful he had to reproduce.

I’m even considering going to an auction but that frightens me even more than CL.

Well, I’ve contacted some horse folks that might also be able to help me find a suitable friend. Fingers crossed.

Sharing some horses for sale

I’ve had some fun this week shopping online for a new horse. I’ve found a few possibles and would like to share them with you….

Vanna unfortunately sold the very day I called about her! However, I still would like to share her lovely video with you:

She was sold by a pair of professional horse trainers in Michigan who specialize in selling calm, traffic and trail safe horses, some of which are drafts and draft crosses. I had a great talk with Dennis and I’m keeping them in mind. They are pretty far from me but within four hours of a horse girlfriend.

If you visit their Youtube channel they are some very comprehensive videos, which as Dennis says, speak for themselves.

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I’m also talking with Passion Horse Rescue in Ft. Worth, TX, which specialize in draft horse rescue (when you go to their website, music turns on. To turn it off, look upper left). I’m interested in Reiata but she may sell before I get down there during the kids spring break (in the next week). However, you never know what horse will come in and need a new home! 

For beginners, I do not usually recommend a rescue horse as they can come with baggage that makes them challenging horses to work with let alone ride, but PHR re-trains and definitely spends time matching horse to rider.

Some other things I like about this rescue: they don’t undercut the sale price of their horses. Many rescues do this, but then find themselves struggling to stay afloat. They also seem focused on horses that can rehabbed and rehomed; too many rescues focus on special needs horses that will most likely never find a home and then the rescue becomes swamped with many long term care horses, causing them to go under financially.

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A major problem I’m having is finding drafts and draft crosses that are in my area that are trained to ride and aren’t priced out as some dressage-wanna-be (high $$). While digging deep across the internet I came across Bear being sold by Fairplay in Georgia.

The video took me over to their website and I have to say, despite myself, I’m impressed.They are dealers but have sold an impressive amount of horses to fellow horse professionals (a vet, an equine massage therapist, a mounted patrol office etc…) so I might need to investigate these folk further.

What I like about their website is horses seem to be fairly represented with both good and bad points noted. On one of the ponies for example, they wrote: He is fine leadline and will ride independently but …. He will shake his head, lie down while mounted, nip at you, and is far too interested in the mares! We pride ourselves on selling good  ponies…this isn’t one of them. His positives: cheap, healthy, current vaccinations and coggins, and hasn’t bucked so far.

ROFLMAO! BTW the pony formerly known as Midnight did sell for $200 and I bet he is the King at his new place!

Buying from a trainer, instructor or trader…

Buying from a horse professional you think would be easy. But it’s fraught with it’s own dangers.

If you buy a horse through a stable, broke, trainer etc…there is always a commission involved that you, as buyer, know nothing about. I didn’t know about these invisible rake offs until I worked for a trainer as they are never discussed openly. If you ask them about it, most will play innocent and say “what commission? I’m taking a loss on this horse! I’m your friend!” ROFLMAO! Don’t buy that act.

If a trainer represents you, and you visit another trainers’ horse, both trainers will most likely get a commission. This means that your trainer is no longer operating as a Buyer’s Agent, but as a Seller’s Agent, and their advice could be tainted. Again, don’t believe that your trainer/instructor is doing it out of the kindness of their heart.  There’s a kickback happening either in money, positive stroking of reputation, or favors.

Just me personally, but I would prefer a trainer/instructor tell me, “for $500 I will travel to see 4 horses, ride them and give my input about them” then accept a commission based on the horses’ sell price. However, this is unrealistic. If a trainer sells you a $8,000 horse and takes modest 15% commission they can make $1200. I’ve known it to go as half the price as the owner is actually asking (owner is selling horse for $4,000 but trainer has doubled the price and takes the other $4,000).

Horse brokers, trainers, stables and dealers will know exactly how to conceal a horses’ worst points. Unscrupulous people will use drugs, deprive the horse of water, starve the horse, and/or ride the horse hard before you show up to conceal problems. Here’s a classic: seller will deliver – that way you never know that the horse won’t willingly load into a trailer.

If buying from a stable, trainer, or instructor, the best way to get around a horse being misrepresented is to LEASE THE HORSE for 2 weeks to a month to see if you are a good match. This gives you plenty of time to discover if you two are a match, as well as overcomes any trick the seller might try to hide faults or health issues.

Generally, this comes down to a written agreement where you pay the boarding fees, farrier and vet for the trial month. Dependent upon the agreement, the horse is generally still up for sale, with you being offered first chance to buy. If the horse is used in a lesson program or by it’s owner for shows etc…they may still be using the horse during your trial lease. If the horse is to be moved to your trainers’ barn during the trial period, the owner has the right to remove the horse at any time and retains full ownership until the horse is paid in full.

Let me tell you a true story I personally witnessed. OTTB comes to barn where the instructor/trainer has a deal with a TB farm. She sells them and gets kickback. She puts a teen student on the horse who rides it for 3 months to “train it” (aka put miles on it). Finally, someone decides to buy and during the vet check it is discovered that OTTB has an injury where the tendon is barely holding on. Any sort of twist and this 16.3 horse would have collasped in a crippled heap. BTW teen rider Had been jumping this TB! Talk about lawsuit waiting to happen!

ADVICE? GET A VET CHECK!

Personally, I’m not saying it’s evil to buy from a horse professional but I am saying that don’t trust what they say and get a VET CHECK. They are selling horses for a living and they know exactly how to do it to reluctant buyers. Be smart and realilze they have their own agenda! Hopefully, that agenda can coincide with your needs but if not, walk away.

TRUST YOUR INTUITION and DON’T LET YOURSELF BE COWED!

Before you get all excited – preliminary fact checking

It would be easy to fall in love. There’s a lot of beautiful horses out there. However, let’s take a step back. Before deciding to buy you have:

1.) Taken riding lessons or know how to ride. If you have been off from horses for years, it’s best to take about a 3 month refresher course before buying. The benefit of taking riding lessons is you can ride multiple horses helping to determine your skill level and what type of time commitment you can really make.

2.) You have a place to keep it. For first time buyers, keep it where you can get assistance from an instructor or trainer; the backyard is not the best place for those new or returning to horses after many years being off.

3.) You’ve evaulated how much riding you will actually do and know what type of horse fits that schedule. Someone who works full-time will have little time for young horse; weekend warrior riders need something well broke and a bit older then a youth rider.

4.) You have a more experienced horse friend you TRUST who can advise you.

When you send off an email about a horse realize that you will get two responses to about every 10 sent. Listed horses have been sold, the owner doesn’t check email often (don’t ask me why you would post a horse online then but…), or they decided against selling the horse, etc…

Horse sellers are also tired of tire kickers: people who want to buy a horse on payments, are too far away to visit the horse or ship it (particularly true of cheaper horses), and 14 year old girls who want their parents to buy them a horse. In order to get a better response to your inquiry I suggest sending along a list of short, sensible questions along with your city and state in the signature (don’t send a phone number til you have seen PHOTOS!):

~ ask them to describe the horses personality/temperment
~ how long have they owned the horse?
~ barefoot or shod?
~ type of bit regularly rides in?
~ assuming UTD (up to date) on shots, worming and current Coggins?
~ recent riding history?
~ any known health issues?
~ current feed?
~ more photos? and any video available?

This should get the ball rolling. It shows you have some intelligence about horses and are interested in it’s care. If, after an email back and photos you want more info, I send some more detailed questions that get into the nitty gritty:

~ how does the horse behave when it spooks? what types of things spook it?
~ if a trail horse – what trails has it been on, how long ago? how does it cross water, bridges, deals with traffic, dogs, cars?
~ if a show horse – what shows, what placement, how long ago, was it ridden by owner or a trainer?
~ if a dressage horse – ask for copies of the judges comments and scoring to be mailed to you (if you are really serious)
~ what reason for sale?
~ will the horse pass a vet examination (this lets them know that drugs are not going to hide issues and they better come clean right now)?

After the above, it would be time to schedule an appt to see the horse or tell the owner, thanks, but no thanks. Don’t keep them dangling!

Some things that should be warning signs:

~ No photos. Don’t bother seeing any horse without seeing photos first!

~ photos of grazing horses that are being sold as a riding horse. Demand to see a photo of the horse being ridden – not being led around or stuck with a toddler on it’s back. I personally prefer to see women ride the horse then men, kids or teens. Anyone can stick a kid in the saddle, take a quick photo, and then call the horse kid-safe.

~ Saddled photos that hide the fact the horse has a swayed back. Ask to see unsaddled and riding photos.

~ Horse that has been listed for six months and it has not sold. Why?

~ No proof of show history. Hm big question is WHY!? Find out if the horse is listed for sale with their local show club and ask around with that group to see if the horse has a history that is causing those in-the-know to avoid buying.

~ they are selling the horse as calm and accomplished but are asking to buy a horse that is calm! Why would they sell a horse they know for something else? Because the first horse is too much for them. You would be surprised at how many times I’ve seen this!

~ they have owned the horse for a short period of time and are selling it. This could mean someone who flips horses (tunes them up and resales), or horse has issues. One person here always says these ponies are her kids’ horses but if that is so, her kids go through an amazing amount of ponies! She shows them riding a different pony on a new ad every week! I prefer horses that have been with the owner 3-5 years.

~ I prefer to buy a horse from a woman then a man. In my part of the world, male riders are generally rough guys who will “put a handle on a horse” through brute force. They can often be insensitive to a woman’s hesitancy on getting up on an unknown horse. And most horse traders (flipping auction horses for sale to unsuspecting innocents) are MALE.

~ Women who try to rip off innocents are those who are trainers and instructors; they build a relationship with you before they start the rip off. They will con you into thinking they are treating you like a friend and giving you a break. They will try to convince you to buy a horse THEY want to buy and then when it doesn’t work out for you, buy it back from you at a much more reduced price.

I cannot stress this enough: TRUST YOUR INTUITION. If you get a FUNNY FEELING about the situation that makes you go hmmm…..? then STOP ALL INVOLVEMENT IN THE BUYING PROCESS.

By this time you should have a good feel about the horse and if it would be a possible choice for you. Visiting and buying I’ll put under different blog posts.

Why some Horses don’t Fit the Bill

The horses I will need to step away from and why….

Red Roan Appaloosa: Oh I HEART this horse. God, everything about him says “I want to be your friend for life!” Got an email back with details and if I was looking for my first horse, this would he him. If I was local, I would lease him and give up eating to do it. 

However, I feel his price is too high considering his age, and his age means increasing health issues that for personal reasons (the recent death of Dear One, and the pelvis fracture of Big Guy with his retirement) I don’t want to deal with. If he was $2500 though I might have to make a trip to Nebraska with a horse trailer…

Generally, I wouldn’t put aside an older horse, especially for a beginner. For a first time buyer, this horse sounds ideal (if the ad and email are honest).

Dappled Draft Cross Gelding: Another horse I HEART! I really like the conformation on this horse – a deep chest, round back, square body, strong short back…his face in the ad photos changes somewhat as the front face on photo is prettier then the side pic. I could see this horse being a great children’s cross country horse, riding to the hounds, or a faithful trail companion.

The reason for no: youth, inexperience and a bit smaller then I was wanting. He would be another project horse and Z already gives me seasonal headaches. However, his build, color, and face just say, “come buy me!” I might have to go look at him hahahaha

Grulla Mare: On the surface this horse sounds very promising. I got photos later tonight and immediately said no. This is why never make a decision based on description alone (I travel to see NOTHING I haven’t seen at least a photo of) and how photos are worth a thousand words.

This horse screams show horse, princess, diva and something I really don’t need in my life. Her conformation is nice and she looks fit and a good weight/atheleticism. Her butt is a bit higher then I look for with my own personal horses, the head a bit big for the body and the legs on the delicate side for the trail horse I’m seeking. She seems to be standing on her small tip toes, which could be conformation or a bad trim/farrier job. Be aware that some overbred QH lines have poor feet so doublecheck in person.

another bald face with a blue eye and fake tail

Also, compare the bits and reins of these two horses side by side: the Grulla Mare (right different horse then above) is in draw reins to go TRAIL RIDING… red flag. The horse on the left appears to be a sensible fellow who you could take for an easy trail ride, the girl on the right will dance down the trail, and go ICKY! STREAM TO CROSS!!!

I have not seen this horse and I don’t really know but the appearance and the price do not seem a good fit. I would expect this horse to be higher in price and marketed as a show horse. Since she is not…you have to ask why? Now, lets be clear I am not writing this isn’t a fantastic horse…it simply is not the type of horse I am looking for.

Moral: Don’t let PRETTY be the deciding factor…look at equipment, temperment, experience, and training.

Arab Endurance: Really nice looking horse but not the horse for a timid rider like my daughter.This horses’ get-and-go would frighten her badly right now. He will make someone a great horse but just not the horse for my situation.

Moral: Don’t buy a horse to “grow into.” Big Mistake. You’ll be unhappy during the journey and never reach the destination.There’s a difference in getting a horse that will stretch you and one that will take a year to get up to speed with.

I’ll post others as I go along and my perspective and advice on horse shopping…